Noob but want to acquire knowledge

[vicarius31]

Hi guys,

First of all, thanks for this fabulous source of information for Saab ECUs.

I would like to summarize what I've been understanding so far. So if someone could be kind enough to fix my mistakes
or misunderstandings, I will be very grateful.

So the ECU is the brain of our car. It communicates through a specific automotive network which is call the CAN
(like a LAN could be in the IT network environment, but I'm IT guy so it's useful for me to compare). My car
is a an OG93 (OG stands for Old Generation right?) 154 HP MY 1999 LPT. So I should have a Trionic 5.5 DI engine (red cartridge).
So I've tried to read as much as I could of the Trionic 5 guide and and the T5 suite software guide as well.

My understanding is:

- the firmware includes the program itself aimed at driving all vital components of the car and also data values (maps?)
which are a set a constants for the program to use
- Stage1/Stage2/etc are only a modification of those values, tuned to add torque and power to the car
and sometimes hardware modification when power becomes too high.
- BDM is a way to connect the ECU with a genuine LPT mainstream PC. But you have to solder 8 pins on the
ECU board in order to connect ECU and PC
- When using programs to read/write new firmware, you need to run plain DOS programs.
- CANUSB is another way which apparently doesn't need any hardware tampering or mods. But
it seems to be costly (round 100 euros the device)
- To communicate with the CAN of the ECU, you can use the T5 suite on WIndows directly
(no need for DOS anymore)
- In any case, you have to power the ECU with a near 15 volts power supply
- As I own a Low Power Turbo engine, I need to add a solenoid valve to my car
(should'nt be too difficult and quite cheap, shouldn't be?)
- It should be wiser to buy a spare Trionic 5 ECU to first be acquainted with all the mods

This is my basic understanding. But I now have questions

- is it possible to only download the firmware by connecting the ECU is the car with the CANUSB device? It seems
the ECU connector is hidden by the glovebox but the connector looks weird (not the same than the one on the CANUSB). So
still need hardware plug mods to be able to connect the CANUSB plus in the ECU connector?
- expected additional hp on stage 1 seems to be "only" 20 to 30 HP. I've seen Stage 1 from ELKParts on their website.
They claim you can reach up to 73 additional hp. So what's the difference with the Open Source ECU mod?
Is the program itself which is changed, in addition to the data (a.k.a maps according to my understanding)?
- What is really this VSS stuff? This is the security code of the car and it need to be copied from the old car's
firmware to the new firmware data area to be able to continue to use the key or start the engine?

Thanks again for your time and sorry for naive questions.

[Dilemma]

Hi mate,

seems to me that you've done your reading quite well

It is possible to read the data from the ECU in the car, no problem. Taking it out is not that much work on the other hand
You need to converter cable (DIY is easy) to connect the canusb dongle to your ECU's SFI connector.

The additional HPs in the document is based on a FPT car. You will get about 240-250 hp from a stage 1 which will be a gain of 90 hp give or take.

VSS is a vehicle security system which will block the fuel pump (no start) if the codes between VSS device and ECU don't match. Make sure your car actually has VSS (you can see that if you download the bin file from your ECU. If you do have VSS, the code will be shown in T5Suite as well).

If you use your original bin file for tuning in T5Suite you won't have any problem with VSS etc anyway because this part will be left untouched.

/Guido

[vicarius31]

Hi Guido,

I forgot to add that my car is an automatic transmission. So the expected additional HPs should be less right?
But anyway, do you mean that simply changing the firmware should add about 90 HPs to MY car
(or 70 to 80 because of the automatic transmission), without any additional hardware?

As of the SFI connector, I'll check how to build it.

It seems also that the T5 suite allows you to monitor real-time parameters just by connecting the USB dongle
and is also able to datalog those parameters for postmortem analysis?

If I want to buy a spare ECU, is there any P/N to search for? Or any Trionic 5.5 ECU will do the trick?

Thanks for your answers.

[Dilemma]

Hi mate,

If you don't have a APC control valve & hoses you will need those of course. Some LPT cars have intercooler and APC valve, some have APC valve but no intercooler and some have an intercooler but no APC valve

Anyway... i think you see that you will need an intercooler and the apc stuff to get more out of the car. Since it's an auto gearbox you will land somewhere around 230 bhp i think.

The canbus dongle is not one that you buy at every corner though and it costs around 100 - 120 euro (www.canusb.com will show you the dealers as well).
The logging can help you bigtime in getting the most of it and also to trap faults in the system.

/Guido

[vicarius31]

OK thanks.

I have to check if mine has got an inter-cooler. With the VIN, is it sufficient? It should be easy to verify shouldn't be?

Also someone in a French forum wrote that by just adding an APC valve, I could raise from 154 to near 185 HP,
with an additional step dealing with adaptive ECU function...

And what is your recommendation regarding the spare ECU?

Thanks a lot.

[Dilemma]

Just check the intercooler on the car... that would be easiest i guess Follow the airline from the compressor housing and you'll find out.

As for the spare ECU: any T5.5 unit will do!

[vicarius31]

I'll check if I got an intercooler this weekend.

For the SFI to DB9 connector (other side of the CANUSB), I'm a little bit confused. As I have an OG93 1999, I need the following P/N from Saab dealer:

- one 4117461 plug
- 3 connecting pins 4115077

So my questions are:

- main concern: for reading in-car data from the ECU, I don't any power supply right?
- the pins are simply aimed at easily connecting wires to the 4117461 plug?
- I've seen I need twisted pair of cables to connect to the CANUSB. Do you have a recommendation for quality and diameter?
- why not using a simple PC DB9 female/DB9 male and cut one part and reuse the remaining part?
- can I leave the cable in the car unattended?

Thanks for your answers.

[Just4pLeisure]

@Guido
Haha - I just found out you have made my car 230 bhp - I thought it was 190-200 bhp. What do I tell my insurance company now They're already charging me a lot more because I said 200 bhp

How sure are we that any ECU will do? I suppose the question is when did Saab switch over to the newer 20 MHz CPU chips? Vicarius31's car is newer than mine so might he need a 20 MHz version?

@Vicarius31
In any event I think the safest thing to do is get a 20 MHz one if you can because the 16 MHz BIN files work in a 20 MHz ECU (Saab do this sometimes) but the other way round might not work.

Sophie x

[johnc]

How sure are we that any ECU will do? I suppose the question is when did Saab switch over to the newer 20 MHz CPU chips? Vicarius31's car is newer than mine so might he need a 20 MHz version?

I think it's not critical. My 9K originally had a 20MHz box, and I swap it with a spare 16MHz ECU routinely with no ill effects.

[vicarius31]

Hi all,

I'm reviving this old post because I didn't get too much time since then.

But now it's hot here and I'll be soon on vacation

I checked my car and do have an intercooler but no BCV. So my question is simple: if I buy a BCV and install it
in my car, do I get immediately a stage 1 (so about 230 hp) without fiddling with the ECU or do I need to
change the maps and download new firmware in the ECU?

If I just install a BCV without tampering the ECU, how much do I get?

Thanks a lot

[Janus0070]

Just BCV will not be enough - you will need to flash software intended for a car with BCV. But the good news are - you can immediately gain horsepower by flashing stock file for BCV enabled car and (with T5Suite) can safely easytune to stage 1. Increase in power in this case will be formidable

[Dilemma]

If you mount the boost control valve (you need some vacuum hose as well, i think there are sellers that sell the entire kit) you won't gain much.
The maps in the ECU are probably (there are several different software versions for LPT) telling the valve to keep boost at - or nearly at - base boost which you have now as well.

Base boost is ~0.45 bar. Stage 1 would bring that up to 1.1 - 1.2 bar which would increase power from 170bhp to 230 bhp or so. You WILL feel the difference big time

In short, yes, you need to reflash the ECU as well.

[vicarius31]

Thanks guys. So I will buy the CANUSB.

But first I will try to locate the ECU. I need to unscrew the glove box right?

As for the stock turbo I have, is it built to support 1.1 bar? (naive question sorry )

[Dilemma]

If you don't have plans to do logging or live mapping you will be better off buying a USB BDM interface from johnc (ecuproject member). It is cheaper and leaves no chance to brick your (spare) ECU.

Your turbo will support 1.1 bar. Just make sure everything is in good working order (wastegate works properly, no white/blue/black smoke from exhaust, no stuff in the engine oil, no stuff in the coolant etc).

[vicarius31]

But I was thinking that USB BDM was requiring soldering or tampering the ECU?

Or maybe it's the LPT BDM?

[rawill]

I think you will find the ecu on the right hand side of the car, just above the front foot well for the passenger in a LHD car. (we are rhd here), and I have taken one ecu out of an OG93.

I have never used the canbus system, I am a newbie.
I used the lpt / bdm and I have done 4 cars now. My own 97 2.3 9000 lpt auto has been done to stage one. It is a very good system as the tune only boosts at WOT. This means you can still drive it like "grandma" and get great fuel consumption but you have the boost when you really need it.

I tuned my 93 9000 fpt auto to stage two, about 250 hp, it really goes. No other mods except the cat is removed and a hotdog is in its place.

Have fun and enjoy the tuning, it gives great satisfaction.

/R

[Janus0070]

Yes, both BDMs require some soldering skills to be installed. On the other hand, once you have installed BDM, you never have to worry about bricking your ECU, as Dilemma says. Your choices are LPT or USB BDM - USBBDM is more user friendly, LPT one is cheaper. CANUSB is a must if you want to log the performance, gather realtime data, in other words - use full Suite functionality. USBBDM currently only supports RAM reading (with adaptation data) and flash writing/ereasing/reading due to its principle of operation (stopped MCU). LPT BDM will only read/flash/erase your ECU.

[vicarius31]

Actually, my idea was to buy another ECU on eBay to change the firmware. I should have a Trionic 5.5 I guess but I need
to check first. For sure CANUSB is about 100 euros and I understand that USB-BDM is far more cheaper.

How difficult is it to solder the BDM interface?

As for the spare ECU, which one which is compatible can I buy? I guess same Trionic version and subversion
(5.5 if my car is 5.5 and not 5.2) but same P/N? Same year model? Automatic one (because my car is an automatic one)?

On the other hand, I've seen on the WEB a device called MAPTUNER. As I understand, this is an expensive device which does
pretty much the same that T5 Suite but with a standard connection to the car?

I'm a little confused also with the OBD-II stuff. What's the relationship with CAN bus? Newer? Diags only?

Thanx a lot

[Janus0070]

Another ECU is a very good idea. For USB BDM price PM Johnc, he should be able to supply. Soldering BDM interface is not difficult if that is not your first soldering job. I basically learned to solder through BDM headers

ECU type - you need to watch for T5.2 or T5.5 (most probably you havbe T5.5), nothing else matters (nor gearbox type nor year). You should however check what processor type you have - 16Mhz or 20Mhz and buy a similar one (the processor within ECU is marked with a longish number, ending in 16 or 20).

I would not dwell on OBD connections at the moment if I were you - too many questions and really, most of the software here is designed for CANbus or BDM. M@ptuner and other similar solutions are not too useful (or safe, or fast) for our purposes. There is a lot of info about this on the forum.

[rawill]

Another ECU is a very good idea.

ECU type - you need to watch for T5.2 or T5.5 (most probably you havbe T5.5), nothing else matters (nor gearbox type nor year). You should however check what processor type you have - 16Mhz or 20Mhz and buy a similar one (the processor within ECU is marked with a longish number, ending in 16 or 20).
There is a lot of info about this on the forum.

Totally right -

You are looking for an ecu with this on its sticker:
SAAB AFM5 5xxx(where whatever xxx is does not matter)
Partnumber is irrelevant - because you are going to tune it.

If it comes from an earlier 9000, after 1993, it will likely be a 16mhz ecu, if it comes from a NG900se, or OG93 it could be a 20 mhz ecu.

Only way to check is to open it and read the numbers on the main chip as Janus0070 said above.

/R