Holset Super 40 runs today :-)

[jzw]

I posted this on the other forums, but thought I would post here too. I busted my ass all weekend and it was a tuff job, had to remake the dp and a bunch of other pita stuff.

Got the Holset on and the car running. I was curious how the fueling would be with my w/m injection and 25psi compared to my gt3076 and 28psi. Well, I immediately ran out of fuel and it looked like I was in the mid 13's as far as I could tell, the car goes up so fast in rpm from 5k-7k, the a/f gage is lagging behind and I can't really tell what is going on, but it only dropped a little bit below 14!

I made a new file where I put in all the fuel I had from 5k-7k and will test again tomorrow. I was at 125 or so, I put it up to 148-149 and will see how it runs with that type of fueling.

Here is a quick teaser video link:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/saab ... 640075.htm

John

[stevehayes01]

Looks like fun John.

[mackan]

That air intake pipe was quite big, same pipes I use for ventilation in my house I guess

When does the turbo give full boost with your current settings?

[vigge]

it looked like I was in the mid 13's as far as I could tell, the car goes up so fast in rpm from 5k-7k, the a/f gage is lagging behind and I can't really tell what is going on, but it only dropped a little bit below 14!

logging data to file to be later studied is of course more revealing than trying to "read" figures live from a gauge during a wot run

Nice to see that the car is back up and running.

[Hook]

Can you put both hw-setups in layout in logworks?

Makes more easily to compare differences between hw-setups.

Here sample is comparision between Bosch 040 and 044 fuelpumps.



Afr dropped from ~12.5 -> 11 after replacing even more powerfull fuelpump. Allso EGT dropped from 970c (TOO HOT) to accetable 900c @100-200km/h acceleration

[jzw]

it looked like I was in the mid 13's as far as I could tell, the car goes up so fast in rpm from 5k-7k, the a/f gage is lagging behind and I can't really tell what is going on, but it only dropped a little bit below 14!

logging data to file to be later studied is of course more revealing than trying to "read" figures live from a gauge during a wot run

Nice to see that the car is back up and running.

Yes, I need to hook up the innovate now That was the first couple of pulls on the new set-up. I remapped the fuel to give me everything it had past 5k, I did some pulls this morning at 34f and OH MY GOD! The car was crazy stupid fast, it hit 28-30psi in the cold morning air and the good news is my a/f stayed at 12.0/1 for a while and then started climbing up as I got closer to redline at 7200rpm. As I pased 6800rpm, the a/f was at 12.5/1 and by redline it was at 12.8/1. Time for more fuel now

Bad news is the new spec stg 3+ clutch did not hold, it started slipping in third, had to pedal it and it did grab after the pedal and then held through 4th gear and I went from 75-80mph to 140mph in the blink of an eye

I don't know where to go from here on the clutch, maybe a tilton or something, what was that clutch you recommended a year back Vigge?

More fuel, more clutch needed for sure, it only made 25-26psi at 60F, but at 34f, it made 30psi, it really likes the cold morning air and I only have it mapped for 1.6 bar, but it made more in the dense air. I checked all my hoses, those are fine,

John

[jzw]

Can you put both hw-setups in layout in logworks?

Makes more easily to compare differences between hw-setups.

Here sample is comparision between Bosch 040 and 044 fuelpumps.



Afr dropped from ~12.5 -> 11 after replacing even more powerfull fuelpump. Allso EGT dropped from 970c (TOO HOT) to accetable 900c @100-200km/h acceleration

So the bosh 044 allowed the acceptable fuel levels, do you have larger fuel line or any updates on the fuel rail? I only have the walbro 255 in the tank now, thinking of trying an inline fuel pump.

John

[jzw]

That air intake pipe was quite big, same pipes I use for ventilation in my house I guess

When does the turbo give full boost with your current settings?

Late, I was hopping for similar results as Vigge, but with this thin mile high air and my slightly different wheel on the turbine side, my set-up did not make full boost until 5k, what was interesting to me is that when it started to come on, it came on very fast, went from 05-25 very, very fast, then even though it came on very fast, the power felt smoother than the gt3076 for some reason, no big jerk of torque there. Felt smooth, yet fierce and really does sound like a jet engine when under full load.

John

[vigge]

Yes, I need to hook up the innovate now That was the first couple of pulls on the new set-up. I remapped the fuel to give me everything it had past 5k, I did some pulls this morning at 34f and OH MY GOD! The car was crazy stupid fast, it hit 28-30psi in the cold morning air and the good news is my a/f stayed at 12.0/1 for a while and then started climbing up as I got closer to redline at 7200rpm. As I pased 6800rpm, the a/f was at 12.5/1 and by redline it was at 12.8/1. Time for more fuel now

Bad news is the new spec stg 3+ clutch did not hold, it started slipping in third, had to pedal it and it did grab after the pedal and then held through 4th gear and I went from 75-80mph to 140mph in the blink of an eye

I don't know where to go from here on the clutch, maybe a tilton or something, what was that clutch you recommended a year back Vigge?

More fuel, more clutch needed for sure, it only made 25-26psi at 60F, but at 34f, it made 30psi, it really likes the cold morning air and I only have it mapped for 1.6 bar, but it made more in the dense air. I checked all my hoses, those are fine,

John

I seriously think you that something "wrong" in your clutch set-up's since with the uncorr wtq you have been running dont really suggest that things should be slipping. For instance in my car I do have a 3year old clutch which has seen many thousand of wot runs and even today it will hold 650Nm (around 430ft-lb on the "wheel") Guys like Marko and Johan have run close to 500ft-lb on the "wheel" and in both cars case the clutch held just fine. Need to look-up since I dont recall exactly but remember Johan drove through several seasons with same parts.
With the 3076 your SAE corected figures where 460fb-lb and uncorr <400 i suppose and if you're slipping the clutch in 3rd before you slip the wheels the tq cannot be "excessive" IMHO.

[jzw]

I personally think its the spec light flywheel insert material that is maybe too hard for the clutch compound. I did not have this issue with the stock flywheel.

I thought about something being wrong, but this is the third clutch in 8 months and I have put in a new slave cylinder and new flywheel insert and disk and pp every time. I just don't know what else could be wrong with the clutch set-up that could be wrong with 3 different clutches. The only thing left is the clutch line and master cylinder. I have checked and made sure the pedal comes all the way back, not sure what else could cause this issue, except the metal of the light flywheel insert.

I will go back to the stock flywheel next time.

With 3076, it was 400wtrq uncorrected, have no idea what torque a made at 30psi this morning.

The new clutch had 1200 miles on it.

John

[Hook]

So the bosh 044 allowed the acceptable fuel levels, do you have larger fuel line or any updates on the fuel rail? I only have the walbro 255 in the tank now, thinking of trying an inline fuel pump.

John

No any updates on fuelrails. (YET..)
Only replaced -044 pump and bigger T-pipe (8/5/8mm) between pump and tank-hatch, where 8mm line is from pump to fuel-rail.

http://www.npr.fi/~heikki/misc/bosch044_1.jpg
http://www.npr.fi/~heikki/misc/bosch044_2.jpg
(you see beter flowin T-connector in picture..)

Can you put some logs, where we can see how its working and maybe give some ideas, if it dont spool so fast as should?

Hook

[jzw]

Where can you find one of those nice T's? I figured out my slow spool, I had forgot to put in the fire-ring and now it should spool up a lot faster with the waste-gate not being open

I will get some logs soon, it snowed last night, so no testing today

John

[Hook]

There:

http://www.mksautobusiness.fi/page_hose_connectors.html

T-HOSE CONNECTOR 8/5/8 MM, MKS-C019

They allso sell fuelpumps.
http://www.mksautobusiness.fi/page_fuel_systems.html

However, i think that you can find those 8mm/5-6mm/8mm T-connectors in local shops allso. Be sure that those accepts fuel. some plastic's are not good for fuel use..

[jzw]

That air intake pipe was quite big, same pipes I use for ventilation in my house I guess

When does the turbo give full boost with your current settings?

Ok, I got my boost leak fixed, I did not have the fire-ring installed in my external waste-gate

Now, this new Holset super 40 turbo with 16cm2 turbine housing spools up earlier and faster than my previous gt3076wg .86ar.

The new turbo makes 10psi by 3500rpm in 4th gear 40F and 20psi by 4000rpm and the full 27psi by 4250rpm or so, hard to tell, I will get logs soon. For reference, the gt3076 made 10psi by 3800rpm and made full boost of 27psi by about 4800-5000rpm, the holset seems to actually spool faster than the fancy bb garrett turbo that is supposed to be king at spool-up.

Since my turbo loaded the engine earlier, the fuel had a chance to come down and I could see a rock steady 11.8/1 on my gage most of the way up the rpm band at 27psi. Cluth still slipped in third gear unless I rolled into it and pedled it around the 5k mark.

Sound much better with a quiet idle and when the waste-gate opens it sounds feroucious

Cant wait to data log and get on a dyno.

John

[mr supreme]

I personally think its the spec light flywheel insert material that is maybe too hard for the clutch compound. I did not have this issue with the stock flywheel.

I thought about something being wrong, but this is the third clutch in 8 months and I have put in a new slave cylinder and new flywheel insert and disk and pp every time. I just don't know what else could be wrong with the clutch set-up that could be wrong with 3 different clutches. The only thing left is the clutch line and master cylinder. I have checked and made sure the pedal comes all the way back, not sure what else could cause this issue, except the metal of the light flywheel insert.

I will go back to the stock flywheel next time.

With 3076, it was 400wtrq uncorrected, have no idea what torque a made at 30psi this morning.

The new clutch had 1200 miles on it.

John

Can it be that the hose that goes from your pedal to the clucth is not letting the oil back fast enaugh????exuse my bad english only one thougt kindly reegards to all saab drivers!!!!

[jzw]

Well, some feel that it might be a hydraulic issue since some have made as much power as me with no issues with their clutch set-up. My car was converted to a hydraulic set-up from the cable, the clutch line from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder is the stock 93 one, the only difference is the line from resivoir to the master cylinder is not stock, its a little bit longer of a line and it goes to the shared brake system resivior. I am not sure if there could be an issue there, but not sure where else to look or even how to test if there is a hydraulic issue.

I have wondered if its possible that the slave cylinder is not fully releasing the disk or something. I have replaced all the parts, pp, flywheel insert and slave cylinder every time, 3 times in the last 8 months. Each time I pull out the slipping clutch assembly, its blue in areas and looks like someone smeared wax all over the pp and flywheel, glazed badly,

John

[faero]

Whats the peak power plan of your setup John? I am liking these holsets more and more as each new venture come out. This particular one is too big for me - only 10psi at 3500 would drive me mad as it's hardly even base boost - but sounds like your peak power will be huge to compensate!

[tomsan]

Is this engine 2,0 or 2,3 ?
witch injectors do you use?

Tommi

[justyjust]

i just been looking at a holset hx35 this is the nutz just like the 40, people use these turbo's for drifting here i have some info on a uk supplier for performace cars. i would love to run one of these, JSW what BHP are you aiming for???

GS-RAING GSR-HX35 £500

PERFORMANCE/RACE TURBOCHARGER

State of the art Holset-based 600bhp+ capable Garrett GT beater.

Spools like a GT30R but gives more power than a GT35R.

GS-RACING are pleased to announce the first in their new range of Holset-based performance turbochargers are finally ready for public sale..


Following on from the success of our 60mm external wastegates is the GSR-HX35 performance turbochargers, suitable for 1.6 to 5 litre engines producing between 350 and 600bhp.


Although Holset are widely known and well proven on the performance tuning market, offering unbeatable power and spoolup at n unbeatable price, thanks to the state of the art technology used.

The main stumbling block with anybody keen to use a Holset has always been finding one in the first place, and when you did, there was a high possibility it had an unsuitably sized turbine housing or other similar problem for performance car use, due to their primary use on large diesel vehicles.

Well, after months of research and development, that problem is now over, with the release of the GSR-HX35 Holset based turbocharger optimized for performance cars.

Features...

Huge ultra-high efficiency 7 blade "Super" 82mm compressor wheel with 56mm inducer, capable of 600bhp at high boost thanks to ETT (Extended Tip Technology) which gives incredible flow levels in comparison to the inducer size.
MWE (Map Width Enhancement) 4inch compressor inlet, Holsets high performance development on the "ported shroud" or "anti-surge" compressor inlet, which increases performance not only at the surge point on the compressor map, but also on the choke point at the far end of the map. These MWE ports not only release air when close to compressor surge, but suck air in near the choke point. In laymens terms this means you can run high boost at low rpm without the risk of damaging compressor surge, but also increases compressor flow when pushing the turbocharger to its limits. In comparison, normal Garrett style "ported shroud" or "anti-surge" inlets reduce the chances of surge, but actually decrease flow and efficiency at the choke point slightly.
High efficiency twin scroll split pulse T3 footprint turbine housing means faster spoolup than conventional housings due to decreasing exhaust pulse turbulence by separating the exhaust gas from cylinders whose cycles interfere with one another.
T3 footprint 12cm2 turbine housing optimised for ultra-fast spoolup and high performance performance petrol car use.
3inch V-band turbone outlet flange for maximum flow.
Uses Holsets legendary bearing system that spools fast but is immensely strong, almost un-killable without miss-use. And unlike far weaker Garrett GT ball bearing systems, it is fully rebuildable should a problem ever occur.
Brand new, boxed, with inlet and outlet bungs, oil inlet and outlet gaskets, metal turbo to manifold gasket, and full and detailed instructions.
Sounds as amazing as it performs, with the trademark loud spooling sounds from the MWE inlet.
Compressor housing has been painted and lacquered with high temperature paint for good looks and longevity.

[justyjust]

have you checked these vids out
HX35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDayZ9XhZds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-f5Qoqmgao&feature=related
HX40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQI8fa9avc